WTF!

[kooch]

We'd better put that on the cards as well, then.

Painting the entire anti-abortion lobby as pipe bomb toting terrorists is just fucking foolish.

[lokmar]

This is just one of the many, many reasons I cant ever take left feminism seriously. Its an embarrassing insult to womanhood. And I'm not even talking about the trans person, I'm insulted by the entire femnazi ideology.

Well, once they gave woman of the year to a dude, that movement should have shriveled up and DIED!

[lokmar]

The problem is everyone is too busy virtue signaling and trying to look good in front of their latte sipping, smashed avocado eating social circle, as opposed to engaging in a dialog and moving the world forward.

Case in point, I support legal abortion, however I totally understand the sanctity of life argument used by the anti-abortion side and it's a totally legitimate position to hold. Yet I would be demonized by pretty much all of the left leaning people I know because I'd rather just agree to disagree with you on the issue and move forward together on the issues we do agree on rather than call you every name under the sun in a effort to impress a bunch of hipster faggots with useless Croatian Basket Weaving degrees.

The abortion issue could be 90% calmed down if it were limited to the first tri. Dems want Dr Gossnel's of the world re-instated. Hell, for decades they said abortions like he did never happened!

To unwelcomely weigh in on a question to Dovey, I support assassination of any doctor who performs abortion on a viable 7 month old baby. Dr. Gosnell should be burned at the stake and I seriously mean that.

[kooch]

The abortion issue could be 90% calmed down if it were limited to the first tri. Dems want Dr Gossnel's of the world re-instated. Hell, for decades they said abortions like he did never happened!

To unwelcomely weigh in on a question to Dovey, I support assassination of any doctor who performs abortion on a viable 7 month old baby. Dr. Gosnell should be burned at the stake and I seriously mean that.

Fuck off nut jobs are aborting actual children at the 7 month point.

Civil war now.

I'll buy the beers.

[Dovey]

The abortion issue could be 90% calmed down if it were if it were limited to the first tri.

  No, Lok, it would absolutely not.  Those who are fighting against abortion are against the dehumanizing ideology that human rights depend on how old a human being is.  I do not condone violence against abortionists but I do support and advocate justice against them. I dont really shed tears or feel bad when they get harrassed or shot though. I dont support that....but I dont feel bad.

[kooch]

To expand on lokmar's point I was about to say how we have first trimester abortion in my home state but it turns out that it's legal up until 20 weeks.

20. Fucking. Weeks.

I feel sick.

[Dovey]

First of all, arguments about reproductive choice are not binary either.  I haven't been in a hurry to engage you about this because it's gonna take a long post that I have reason to believe you will read attentively, and consider in all its aspects.  And I don't wanna have to do that twice, so I'm waiting not just for time to write it but also for a suitable place to put it where it won't be buried in a topic that's had more threadjacks than Hafiz has had rejections.

So for now, a couple of questions to give me a better clue about your actual position.

A... Do your arguments against abortion support the targeting and assassination of doctors who provide legal abortion services, such as George Tiller to name just one?

B... Are you familiar with the Benedictine nun, Sr. Joan Chittister, and her work (or at least with her thoughts on reproductive rights?)

Peaches, just so you, I reject euphemism slogans like "reproductive choice". This is that manipulation I was referring to. We are not discussing the choice to reproduce. We are discussing the killing of a human being after reproduction has occurred. This is just factually what it is. This is one of reasons I hate third wave feminism. Thier emotionally manipulative language.

[Dovey]

To expand on lokmar's point I was about to say how we have first trimester abortion in my home state but it turns out that it's legal up until 20 weeks.

20. Fucking. Weeks.

I feel sick.

Its the same human being he/she was at 19 weeks. And 8 weeks. Just sayin.

[AMF]

Peaches, just so you, I reject euphemism slogans like "reproductive choice". This is that manipulation I was referring to. We are not discussing the choice to reproduce. We are discussing the killing of a human being after reproduction has occurred. This is just factually what it is. This is one of reasons I hate third wave feminism. Thier emotionally manipulative language.

Yes, you've already said this to me.  I've not agreed with YOUR ideological choice to label and reject a term that's been around for nearly fifty years because you don't like the people YOU believe coined it.  They did not.

Meanwhile, my two questions remain unaddressed except by others.

[Dovey]

Yes, you've already said this to me.  I've not agreed with YOUR ideological choice to label and reject a term that's been around for nearly fifty years because you don't like the people YOU believe coined it.  They did not.

Meanwhile, my two questions remain unaddressed except by others.

You are free to do as you wish but I'm not gonna answer anything that is illogical and not rooted in facts.  Just because the language surrounding Roe is euphemism and has been for 50 years, I'm not going to contribute or play along with propaganda terms like "reproductive choice". Critical thought should be applied regardless of how long a term has been around.  What I will do is discuss facts. Its not ideology that abortion kills a human AFTER reproduction has occurred. That is a fact. Ideology is saying "reproductive choice" as something believed in regardless of facts.

[kooch]

Yes, you've already said this to me.  I've not agreed with YOUR ideological choice to label and reject a term that's been around for nearly fifty years because you don't like the people YOU believe coined it.  They did not.

Meanwhile, my two questions remain unaddressed except by others.

The argument has always been at what point does the social cost of backyard abortions with coat hangers outweigh the loss of human life.

Call it whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Dovey]

 If we are discussing abortion, I'm only going to address facts.  So..  let's get that outta way.  The use of propaganda and euphemism has dumbed down our culture and it's one of the things I challenge.  Deceptive language enabled me to abort a child that if had been given facts, I would have never done. I'm one of thousands of women who have been through this.....so for mine, theirs and future women's sake, I tend to destroy the misinfo as much as I see it. Just save me the hassle and call it what it is.  Most of us "antis" are post abortive.

[Dovey]

Awesome, lets totally put it on the cards in the next couple of weeks.

I'd like to gather my thoughts and arguments before hand so I don't look like some millennial retard screaming "I don't know how to use a condom so the state needs to stab my baby in the face".

I could watch Ben Shapiro snap kick dumb arse college students all day.

lulz

Absolutely! I appreciate that!

[AMF]

If we are discussing abortion, I'm only going to address facts.  So..  let's get that outta way.  The use of propaganda and euphemism has dumbed down our culture and it's one of the things I challenge.  Deceptive language enabled me to abort a child that if had been given facts, I would have never done. I'm one of thousands of women who have been through this.....so for mine, theirs and future women's sake, I tend to destroy the misinfo as much as I see it. Just save me the hassle and call it what it is.  Most of us "antis" are post abortive.

Look, I appreciate that this is an emotional topic for you.  I, too, am what you call "post abortive" just so you know, as are many of my dearest friends.  These emotions are an important part of what all of us who have lived life can bring to any discussion of the topic of abortion.  However, your insistence on having the authority to abridge my language choices makes the discussion very difficult.

As long as you are talking about FACTS, here are some more.

Reproductive rights began to appear as a subset of human rights in the 1968 Proclamation of Teheran, which states: "Parents have a basic human right to determine freely and responsibly the number and the spacing of their children".[6]

This right was affirmed by the UN General Assembly in the 1969 Declaration on Social Progress and Development which states "The family as a basic unit of society and the natural environment for the growth and well-being of all its members, particularly children and youth, should be assisted and protected so that it may fully assume its responsibilities within the community. Parents have the exclusive right to determine freely and responsibly the number and spacing of their children."[4][10] The 1975 UN International Women's Year Conference echoed the Proclamation of Teheran.[citation needed]

[Dovey]

 Peaches, while it is an emotional topic, I do not discuss it with emotional language. Hence why I reject the euphemism. Abortion is factually not a choice to reproduce or not reproduce. It is whether or not women should be legally able to kill the unborn child who exists because reproduction has already happened. Facts ARE authority. I dont need to have authority to state facts. However, my entire purpose in college right now is to gain my MSN and go into OB/GYN NP. If you like me to repeat this to you in 5 to 6 years, i will.  It is a scientific, medical FACT that if a woman is pregnant, reproduction has ALREADY OCCURED. As a HCP I am obligated to stick to facts. This fact doesn't change because the legal BS that permits killing unborn humans and calls it that.  At one point, the law said black people were not persons with rights.  I'm absolutely not playing along with this unscientific and deceptive narrative. If that makes you angry or annoyed, well then so be it. Dont discuss it with me if you wish to stick to propaganda.

[Murdock]

Pro-Choicer here.  Bring on the lesbian bashing and tree-hugging comments 

[Joe]

Exactly. I voted for Obama his first term. I used to lean more left.  While I'm not 100 in agreement with the right(im really more conservative than republican) I can never vote left again. It's hard because I cant ever vote for any person/party that supports abortion and that's one major issue for me.

For better or worse, I support the woman’s right to choose.

I don’t know if this is a correct position on this issue.

I suppose that may run counter to your opinion.

I have a friend who knocked up his g/f & now he’s shittin’ bricks how he’s gonna pay for & take care of the child. He calls me up every day now as the due date gets closer & closer.

I don’t know how they’re gonna pay for the child. One perk is they may be eligible for inexpensive goverment housing & child allowances/subsidies. I think I’ll advise him on that.

[Dovey]

  Reproductive choice is deciding whether or not to reproduce.  Abortion is better called parental choice, since it literally involves choosing to kill your unborn child.

[Dovey]

For better or worse, I support the woman’s right to choose.

I don’t know if this is a correct position on this issue.

I suppose that may run counter to your opinion.

I have a friend who knocked up his g/f & now he’s shittin’ bricks how he’s gonna pay for & take care of the child. He calls me up every day now as the due date gets closer & closer.

I don’t know how they’re gonna pay for the child. One perk is they may be eligible for inexpensive goverment housing & child allowances/subsidies. I think I’ll advise him on that.

  There are thousands of organizations that help people in your friends position all the time. If you feel comfortable, feel free to message me with the general location and I'll find some help for your friend. I will even personally kick in to help. We do this all the time. With all the options we have on a preventative level and options we have if we cannot take care of a child, killing a defenseless human being because you feel entitled to sex and got pregnant is completely barbaric.

[lokmar]

This is simply a morality issue. God says dont screw when you aint married. Abortion at any level is morally reprehensible. Murdering people is worthy of the death penalty. Now you can reject all Godly morality 24/7, just be aware that according to this countries charter, all rights come from God. Logical thought should get you to the right position. While I would limit to the first tri, Doveys position is the morally correct one.