Author Topic: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois  (Read 623 times)

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Offline LotusBud

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Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« on: April 12, 2019, 11:42:30 PM »
Donald Trump will have to release five years of tax returns if he wants appear on the Illinois 2020 presidential ballot, the state's senate has ruled.

The bill, which still requires approval by the Prairie State's House of Representatives, comes amid a growing row in Washington over Mr Trump’s unprecedented refusal to make publicly available his income tax returns.

The US Treasury ignored a congressional deadline to release the documents earlier this week. Treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin claimed the request by the House ways and means committee was “politically motivated”.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-must-release-tax-returns-110100111.html

Perhaps other states will follow suit.  Maybe a couple of purple ones.
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PRESIDENT HE-MAN TRUMP


Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 09:37:11 AM »
The left is feeling like they can't beat Trump on the merits of a sound direction for the country so instead they devise a way to strip persons in Illinois of their right to choose.

And THIS is how communist starts folks.

Finding one reason or another to strip you of a freedom here, a freedom there, and before you know it your eating mud out of a ditch and praising your supreme leader for providing air to breathe 
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Offline AMF

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 11:45:52 AM »
And THIS is how communist starts folks.

Don't fall for what is basically a stunt by the state senate.  The tax returns in question will be released due to the operation of law (the due process you love so much.)

Additionally, and you'd know this if you were more than passingly familiar with the actual operation of your beloved EC, there is no way Trump will see a single vote from Illinois delegates to the EC, at least not on the initial ballot.  This will be so, regardless of whether he's on the ballot or not.

And thirdly, the "freedom strippage" of which you speak is in reality an elected body doing its job, namely representing its constituents who like their candidates to be a bit more transparent than you evidently like YOUR candidates to be.

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Offline Captain Caveman

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 11:51:54 AM »
Don't fall for what is basically a stunt by the state senate.  The tax returns in question will be released due to the operation of law (the due process you love so much.)

Additionally, and you'd know this if you were more than passingly familiar with the actual operation of your beloved EC, there is no way Trump will see a single vote from Illinois delegates to the EC, at least not on the initial ballot.  This will be so, regardless of whether he's on the ballot or not.

You're suggesting that the EC for Illinois will only cast their votes against Trump, whether he's successful or not in that state?
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Offline AMF

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 01:19:43 PM »
You're suggesting that the EC for Illinois will only cast their votes against Trump, whether he's successful or not in that state?

Of course not.  I'm suggesting that he will never be successful in that state.
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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 01:25:10 PM »
Don't fall for what is basically a stunt by the state senate.  The tax returns in question will be released due to the operation of law (the due process you love so much.)

Additionally, and you'd know this if you were more than passingly familiar with the actual operation of your beloved EC, there is no way Trump will see a single vote from Illinois delegates to the EC, at least not on the initial ballot.  This will be so, regardless of whether he's on the ballot or not.

And thirdly, the "freedom strippage" of which you speak is in reality an elected body doing its job, namely representing its constituents who like their candidates to be a bit more transparent than you evidently like YOUR candidates to be.
I am well aware of the both the political stunt and the pointlessness of fighting to get on the ballot of a state which would never vote Republican in the first place.

My concern does not lay there. It rests with the alarming fact that a party is becoming so increasingly desperate to run smear campaigns in lieu of a sound strategy that they will literally twist and bend any provision they can find to outright prevent the will of the people from being observed. Illinois I could give a shit about. They pander to maniacs who potentially incite race wars and chastise their police for voicing outrage over the same. So you know how those morons are going to vote.

My point is this. If Trump is so terrible and your candidates are so great they should be able to wash the fucker with ease. legitimately. During a campaign that appeals to the interests of the majority of our unionized states.

They obviously feel they cannot do that and thus, you have spineless tactics like the one that you see before you now.

The good news is that people in Purple states are smarter than this and will see it for the political hack job that it truly is.
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Offline Oak

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2019, 02:17:43 PM »
How is making him meet requirements a smear campaign?
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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 04:21:23 PM »
How is making him meet requirements a smear campaign?
I didn't say in this particular instance the request for Trump's returns are a smear campaign in itself as it is quite clear there is a significant legal ground to request the same under the provisions clearly defined in the statue. Provided there is a constitutional need. Neal has expressed such a constitutional need. And I happen to agree that the treasury should surrender them.

However, the totality of the situation as it is playing out in the broader political landscape is concerning none-the-less. There are provisions in the statue which call for the appropriate response to the willful refusal to comply with a congressional request. And that is "contempt of congress". I have no doubt, at least not at this juncture, that Neal will invoke such provisions. As he should. And the matter should play out in a manner described by law. Consistently, with equal applicability and with strict adherence to constitutional law.

If the president has broken laws then by all means he should be held accountable. And punished in a manner prescribed by the same.  And the persons and agencies responsible for auditing his returns should be held to account for failure to perform their duties as well. As should any finders of fact who fail to perform their duties. If that means impeachment then it is what is it is. If there is criminal behavior that calls for a response more severe than impeachment I am behind that as well. The President, like any of us, is bound to the law.

This side show however, is no such response provided by law. It is nothing more than a political hack job designed to test the waters and see how far a state can go to dismantle the basic freedoms of their local constituents. Ie the right of an AMerican citizen to vote for the candidate of their choice. Right or wrong & the political awareness and shrewdness of the constituent aside, State legislatures do not have the constitutional authority to strip American citizens innocent of a crime, from the basic right to vote for the candidate of their choosing. As this does more to strip the citizen of a basic liberty than it does to the candidate the State legislatures are seeking to punish. .  And it is that erosion of liberties under the cloak of justice that I am taking issue with here.

Today the reason is tax returns. 20 years from now a candidate will be denied entry into the ballot box based on some other reason which may turn out to be completely preposterous by our standards today,  but happens to be  the new social norm our grandchildren find acceptable.  Of course, I am not in any way suggesting that a request for the tax return of a sitting president is in any way preposterous. I am not. Certainly not.  And unfortunately I had to explicitly express that caveat with repetition due to the rampant illiteracy  which seems to plague the communist regime and their online representation. I fear without doing so, in our day and age of mindless adherence to the twin sibling of communism we would spend the remainder of this conversation splitting ass hairs pointlessly, to the tune of "but look at what so and so did" as if it that were in any way a sustainable argument favoring a stark deviance from constitutional law.

I am not a full fledged supporter of Trump by any stretch of the imagination. I am simply keen to observing any game of 2 card monte being employed before an unfocused eye  because some sleazy politician sees blind rage as an exploitable avenue to strip citizens of yet more freedoms, covertly, under the disguise of protecting their interests.




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Offline AMF

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 04:51:38 PM »
I'm pressed for time and didn't read your post with the attention it no doubt warrants.

I'm just a little bemused by your elevated levels of concern about shit the Dems are doing, after the last 2 years of the GOP running roughshod over all the same freedoms and rights without even a peep out of you.

Can you help me sort that out?

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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 04:58:12 PM »
Present me with an example of what you are speaking of and I'd be happy to weigh in my views on the matter.

I have no doubt you will find many such examples and I mean that sincerely.

The fact that I have either not seen them, or chosen not to comment on them certainly does not detract from the issues at hand here. Does it?
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Offline Oak

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2019, 05:12:35 PM »
I didn't say in this particular instance the request for Trump's returns are a smear campaign in itself as it is quite clear there is a significant legal ground to request the same under the provisions clearly defined in the statue. Provided there is a constitutional need. Neal has expressed such a constitutional need. And I happen to agree that the treasury should surrender them.

However, the totality of the situation as it is playing out in the broader political landscape is concerning none-the-less. There are provisions in the statue which call for the appropriate response to the willful refusal to comply with a congressional request. And that is "contempt of congress". I have no doubt, at least not at this juncture, that Neal will invoke such provisions. As he should. And the matter should play out in a manner described by law. Consistently, with equal applicability and with strict adherence to constitutional law.

If the president has broken laws then by all means he should be held accountable. And punished in a manner prescribed by the same.  And the persons and agencies responsible for auditing his returns should be held to account for failure to perform their duties as well. As should any finders of fact who fail to perform their duties. If that means impeachment then it is what is it is. If there is criminal behavior that calls for a response more severe than impeachment I am behind that as well. The President, like any of us, is bound to the law.

This side show however, is no such response provided by law. It is nothing more than a political hack job designed to test the waters and see how far a state can go to dismantle the basic freedoms of their local constituents. Ie the right of an AMerican citizen to vote for the candidate of their choice. Right or wrong & the political awareness and shrewdness of the constituent aside, State legislatures do not have the constitutional authority to strip American citizens innocent of a crime, from the basic right to vote for the candidate of their choosing. As this does more to strip the citizen of a basic liberty than it does to the candidate the State legislatures are seeking to punish. .  And it is that erosion of liberties under the cloak of justice that I am taking issue with here.

Today the reason is tax returns. 20 years from now a candidate will be denied entry into the ballot box based on some other reason which may turn out to be completely preposterous by our standards today,  but happens to be  the new social norm our grandchildren find acceptable.  Of course, I am not in any way suggesting that a request for the tax return of a sitting president is in any way preposterous. I am not. Certainly not.  And unfortunately I had to explicitly express that caveat with repetition due to the rampant illiteracy  which seems to plague the communist regime and their online representation. I fear without doing so, in our day and age of mindless adherence to the twin sibling of communism we would spend the remainder of this conversation splitting ass hairs pointlessly, to the tune of "but look at what so and so did" as if it that were in any way a sustainable argument favoring a stark deviance from constitutional law.

I am not a full fledged supporter of Trump by any stretch of the imagination. I am simply keen to observing any game of 2 card monte being employed before an unfocused eye  because some sleazy politician sees blind rage as an exploitable avenue to strip citizens of yet more freedoms, covertly, under the disguise of protecting their interests.

I'm running out for the day.  I will read this more carefully and get a response back to you.
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2019, 06:49:46 PM »
I didn't say in this particular instance the request for Trump's returns are a smear campaign in itself as it is quite clear there is a significant legal ground to request the same under the provisions clearly defined in the statue. Provided there is a constitutional need. Neal has expressed such a constitutional need. And I happen to agree that the treasury should surrender them.

However, the totality of the situation as it is playing out in the broader political landscape is concerning none-the-less. There are provisions in the statue which call for the appropriate response to the willful refusal to comply with a congressional request. And that is "contempt of congress". I have no doubt, at least not at this juncture, that Neal will invoke such provisions. As he should. And the matter should play out in a manner described by law. Consistently, with equal applicability and with strict adherence to constitutional law.

If the president has broken laws then by all means he should be held accountable. And punished in a manner prescribed by the same.  And the persons and agencies responsible for auditing his returns should be held to account for failure to perform their duties as well. As should any finders of fact who fail to perform their duties. If that means impeachment then it is what is it is. If there is criminal behavior that calls for a response more severe than impeachment I am behind that as well. The President, like any of us, is bound to the law.

This side show however, is no such response provided by law. It is nothing more than a political hack job designed to test the waters and see how far a state can go to dismantle the basic freedoms of their local constituents. Ie the right of an AMerican citizen to vote for the candidate of their choice. Right or wrong & the political awareness and shrewdness of the constituent aside, State legislatures do not have the constitutional authority to strip American citizens innocent of a crime, from the basic right to vote for the candidate of their choosing. As this does more to strip the citizen of a basic liberty than it does to the candidate the State legislatures are seeking to punish. .  And it is that erosion of liberties under the cloak of justice that I am taking issue with here.

Today the reason is tax returns. 20 years from now a candidate will be denied entry into the ballot box based on some other reason which may turn out to be completely preposterous by our standards today,  but happens to be  the new social norm our grandchildren find acceptable.  Of course, I am not in any way suggesting that a request for the tax return of a sitting president is in any way preposterous. I am not. Certainly not.  And unfortunately I had to explicitly express that caveat with repetition due to the rampant illiteracy  which seems to plague the communist regime and their online representation. I fear without doing so, in our day and age of mindless adherence to the twin sibling of communism we would spend the remainder of this conversation splitting ass hairs pointlessly, to the tune of "but look at what so and so did" as if it that were in any way a sustainable argument favoring a stark deviance from constitutional law.

I am not a full fledged supporter of Trump by any stretch of the imagination. I am simply keen to observing any game of 2 card monte being employed before an unfocused eye  because some sleazy politician sees blind rage as an exploitable avenue to strip citizens of yet more freedoms, covertly, under the disguise of protecting their interests.

Wow.  For someone who is only here to troll, that's a very long and emotional  :bawling: post.
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2019, 07:01:03 PM »
How concerned were you when the CONs ran roughshod over Obama's completely legal and legitimate pick for SCOTUS, BS?

Furthermore, if CON candidates were so great, couldn't CONs win elections legitimately without gerrymandering within an inch of their lives?  And shouldn't CON presidential candidates be able to win the popular AND electoral votes, like Dems do when they take the WH?

Just wondering.
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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 07:24:11 PM »
And unfortunately I had to explicitly express that caveat with repetition due to the rampant illiteracy  which seems to plague the communist regime and their online representation. I fear without doing so, in our day and age of mindless adherence to the twin sibling of communism we would spend the remainder of this conversation splitting ass hairs pointlessly, to the tune of "but look at what so and so did" as if it that were in any way a sustainable argument favoring a stark deviance from constitutional law.

How concerned were you when the CONs ran roughshod over Obama's completely legal and legitimate pick for SCOTUS, BS?  Jus wondering.

It's funny how you can go as far as to predict the behavior of an enfeebled simpleton like clockwork. Evening going so far as to warn said retard of their inevitable inclination to act like a retard

And what do they do they fumble into the forum and do? Act like a fucking retard. 10 out of 10 times.

This is of course, because when you remove the ability to hate trump from the equation they are left with nothing but nose drip and that all too familiar look on a deer's face moments before impact.
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 07:35:57 PM »
It's funny how you can go as far as to predict the behavior of an enfeebled simpleton like clockwork. Evening going so far as to warn said retard of their inevitable inclination to act like a retard

And what do they do they fumble into the forum and do? Act like a fucking retard. 10 out of 10 times.

This is of course, because when you remove the ability to hate trump from the equation they are left with nothing but nose drip and that all too familiar look on a deer's face moments before impact.

Great answer.  You win the debate!
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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 07:40:30 PM »
Great answer.  You win the debate!
No need to declare the obvious

it is self evident

To anyone not suffering from lonely brain cell syndrome
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 07:40:42 PM »
The left is feeling like they can't beat Trump on the merits of a sound direction for the country so instead they devise a way to strip persons in Illinois of their right to choose.

As has been clearly exemplified here, the RIGHT does exactly the same thing.  It's called gerrymandering.  Look it up.  I'm sorry, but until we clean up the whole system, I am adhering to the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" philosophy.

Don't come here whining about Illinois.  Clean up your damn side of the street first.
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Offline Biggie Smiles

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2019, 07:49:46 PM »
As has been clearly exemplified here, the RIGHT does exactly the same thing.  It's called gerrymandering.
I assume you have evidence to support this claim? I'd like to view it and weigh in on it as I have with the information you posted on this thread.

You may not find my response wove into the confines of a single political party the way yours does.  :popcorn:
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Offline AMF

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 08:50:50 PM »
Present me with an example of what you are speaking of and I'd be happy to weigh in my views on the matter.

I have no doubt you will find many such examples and I mean that sincerely.

The fact that I have either not seen them, or chosen not to comment on them certainly does not detract from the issues at hand here. Does it?

Thanks for illustrating my point and my question so nacently. 

The reason you don't do well in political discourse with me is that I'm rather process-oriented and thus I'm not very susceptible to emotional appeals, lurid content, or disingenuous posturing that sometimes borders on hypocrisy.

More specifically, if you were really as torn up as you claim to be about citizens not getting to vote for the candidate of their choice, you'd be a lot more torn up about voter fraud, voter suppression, and voter negation by ballot fraud including machine frauds than you are about a stunt by the Illinois state senate.  And at the very least you'd know what I was talking about when I alluded to such nefarious and criminal misdeeds, and not pretend to draw a blank.  I doubt it's possible you missed reading about them in real time, so that leaves "chose not to comment."  In that case, my question would be "why not, and especially, why now?"  You needn't answer, of course, since the obvious answer is "I'm trolling."

As to your request that I provide you with an example or two, my suggestion is that you google the string "election fraud 2016" perhaps with the additional word "Georgia" or "Texas" or "Arizona" or "Florida" or "North Carolina" or even "Indiana," and pick one of the first five hits.

I'll note that in that context, you'll find lots of early "breaking" stories but very little follow-up by the MSM on those stories, and particularly very little reportage on voting machine "malfunction" being followed up after the votes are tallied and certified.


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Offline Oak

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Re: Well, it looks like Trump has no chance of winning Illinois
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 09:05:56 PM »
I don't know that I can say it better than CGPs.

I have to agree that the right conveniently forgets all the things that they do to supress minority votes.  I find the permanent stripping of voter rights from former convicts especially egregious.  Voting is a right, not a privilege.

They'll do anything to supress minority voting. 
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