Author Topic: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare  (Read 827 times)

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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 02:57:31 PM »
I bet I've paid over 4K into SSI so far this year. Thats a fukin travesty considering my return will likely be 1/4 of what I'll have paid in at most. I'll get MORE of my 401K investment back. SSI should work the same. Since it doesnt, its a ponzi scheme.

You think you'll only get 1k a year in SS?  You don't understand how it works AT ALL, do you?
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 03:02:03 PM »
You think you'll only get 1k a year in SS?  You don't understand how it works AT ALL, do you?

I think I'll only get 1/4 of my total investment back from SSI. That includes ALL of my investment. Thats what I meant when I wrote "my return will likely be 1/4 of what I'll have paid in". If I die before retirement, I'll get $250.00....or rather my heirs will. Thats criminal.
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 03:07:35 PM »
I think I'll only get 1/4 of my total investment back from SSI. That includes ALL of my investment. Thats what I meant when I wrote "my return will likely be 1/4 of what I'll have paid in". If I die before retirement, I'll get $250.00....or rather my heirs will. Thats criminal.

So, you have paid a total of 4k into SS in your life?  And you think you're going to die immediately after retirement?  Because, you know, SS pays monthly, every year, until you die.  It can add up to many times more than you ever put into it.  If the CONs don't steal the funds, that is.
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 05:59:10 PM »
So, you have paid a total of 4k into SS in your life?  And you think you're going to die immediately after retirement?  Because, you know, SS pays monthly, every year, until you die.  It can add up to many times more than you ever put into it.  If the CONs don't steal the funds, that is.

I have paid $4K into it (at least) in 2019 alone. Many thousands over my life, even paying the entire 13.2% myself for several years when I ran my own business. I will have to live beyond 85 in order to possibly break even. Normally, when you make an investment, even if its purchasing stocks that pay dividends, you wind up getting MORE back than your initial investment PLUS if you die, there's something more than $250.00 to pass down to your heirs.

democRATs endangered SSI when they raided it to pay out to people who never paid in a single dime.
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 06:14:53 PM »
I have paid $4K into it (at least) in 2019 alone.


So?  My guess is you will be getting FAR more than 10k a year in SS.  I think your math is off.
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Offline Oak

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 08:26:55 PM »
It's not hypocritical to avail yourself of a fund you paid into.

I could be an ultra billionaire and I would STILL collect every last provision afforded to me by means of systems I've paid into. I could care less how much that makes anyone cry.

As a matter of fact, just to be an extra prick about the matter I would purposely flaunt both my riches and the social security checks I am cashing with as much vigor as I could. Then I would purposely spend the social security check on items that were the most frivolous I could possibly find and flaunt that too. Just to make the snowflakes cry harder.  :biglaugha:

I don't care that she did it beyond showing how full of shit she was.  Just like you ask Bernie to pay more than he has to in taxes, which I do as well.   

If Bernie should live up to his words, so should she have. 

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.   :blowkiss:
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2019, 12:40:00 AM »

So?  My guess is you will be getting FAR more than 10k a year in SS.  I think your math is off.

Many articles have been written on the SSI payouts over many decades. Every one I've read places the break even point at about 85 when retiring at 65. The vast majority never make it to 85 and in fact only pay out $250 in a one time death benefit.
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2019, 12:51:11 AM »
I don't care that she did it beyond showing how full of shit she was.  Just like you ask Bernie to pay more than he has to in taxes, which I do as well.   

If Bernie should live up to his words, so should she have. 

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.   :blowkiss:

The major difference to me is when you live under capitalism and want to take peoples wealth and enslave them to government socialist policies, you should at least have the courage to lead by example. Not that it would make me anymore receptive to the concept.

When you live under the oppression of a socialist policy that drains at least some of your ability to save on your own as SSI does, recouping a small portion of what was forceably liberated from you actually supports your position since what you really want is to take it ALL back.

You want  more taken so give. You want more back so take.
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Offline Oak

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2019, 12:56:22 AM »
The major difference to me is when you live under capitalism and want to take peoples wealth and enslave them to government socialist policies, you should at least have the courage to lead by example. Not that it would make me anymore receptive to the concept.

When you live under the oppression of a socialist policy that drains at least some of your ability to save on your own as SSI does, recouping a small portion of what was forceably liberated from you actually supports your position since what you really want is to take it ALL back.

You want  more taken so give. You want more back so take.

Most people take more than they ever paid in, get real.
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2019, 01:18:47 AM »
Most people take more than they ever paid in, get real.

That is simply not true. My dad and all 3 of his brothers died before 55. Their Dad died at 69. My grandmother died at 83. Not a single one made it to 85. The average lifespan of Americans is less than 80.

https://money.cnn.com/2013/04/14/news/economy/social-security-benefits/index.html
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/
Show the overall trend is less of a percentage of money paid out to recipients. Sure, if you include all the people who dont pay in and yet take, the numbers all show a higher rate of payout vs input. When you look at the groups who all pay in and compare that to what they receive in benefits, they take out less than what they've put in.
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Offline Oak

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2019, 01:25:16 AM »
That is simply not true. My dad and all 3 of his brothers died before 55. Their Dad died at 69. My grandmother died at 83. Not a single one made it to 85. The average lifespan of Americans is less than 80.

https://money.cnn.com/2013/04/14/news/economy/social-security-benefits/index.html
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/
Show the overall trend is less of a percentage of money paid out to recipients. Sure, if you include all the people who dont pay in and yet take, the numbers all show a higher rate of payout vs input. When you look at the groups who all pay in and compare that to what they receive in benefits, they take out less than what they've put in.

"According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes."

What other average investment is going to give you a 33% return?

From your own citation, btw.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/
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Offline lokmar

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2019, 09:03:29 AM »
"According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes."

What other average investment is going to give you a 33% return?

From your own citation, btw.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/

Most people dont get a 33% return. 20% die before collecting anything. The article clearly states that rates of payouts are declining and that the average will be negative. My 401K is worth no less than double what I put in BEFORE including the average yearly rate of return of 5%.
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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2019, 11:22:09 PM »
It isnt hypocrisy when you're forced to pay for a service and then use it. I will draw SSI. No hypocrisy whatsoever. I would also eliminate SSI if given the chance and STILL continue to draw it. Everyone thats paid into it should draw. People under a certain age should get a partial refund. People on it who never paid in such as illegals and people who came in the country unable to work should get the boot.



Are you saying that Trump doesn't take out SS withholding from his illegal alien employees?
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Offline Oak

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2019, 11:36:01 PM »
Most people dont get a 33% return. 20% die before collecting anything. The article clearly states that rates of payouts are declining and that the average will be negative. My 401K is worth no less than double what I put in BEFORE including the average yearly rate of return of 5%.

Declining from 50 years ago, yeah.  People are living much, much longer.
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Offline Oak

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2019, 11:47:46 PM »
20% die before collecting anything.

False.

"About 4 percent of the aged population never receives Social Security benefits. These never-beneficiaries include higher proportions of women, Hispanics, immigrants, the never-married, and the widowed than the beneficiary population; never-beneficiaries are also comparatively less educated."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v71n2/v71n2p17.html
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Offline LotusBud

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2019, 12:17:57 AM »
Most people dont get a 33% return. 20% die before collecting anything. The article clearly states that rates of payouts are declining and that the average will be negative. My 401K is worth no less than double what I put in BEFORE including the average yearly rate of return of 5%.

Where do you get these bogus stats?
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Offline Joe

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Re: Ayn Rand collected social security and Medicare
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2019, 01:10:28 AM »
[Ayn Rand's] books provided wide-ranging parables of "parasites," "looters" and "moochers" using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes' labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor (her husband was Frank O'Connor).

As Michael Ford of Xavier University's Center for the Study of the American Dream wrote, "In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest."

She was elderly and sick and needed surgery (lung surgery, after knocking down two packs a day for decades). Presumably she had a fair amount of money. But she turned to Social Security and Medicare. And under her husband's name!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2011/jan/31/usdomesticpolicy-ayn-rand-hypocrite-fraud

Yeah I somewhat agree that Ayn Rand didn’t set a good example when she accepted those benefits because she preached about self sufficiency & not relying upon governments for help. It’d be different if she was a New Deal Liberal but of course she wasn’t

Her actions contrast sharply with someone like the Depression era boxer JJ Braddock who returned relief money he received from the government to feed his family who were starving at the time



The guy really practiced what he preached and set an example
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